CC Value Scaling with external hardware

Question

For the sake of simplicity, imagine I am using a hardware MIDI foot pedal that sends CC #1 on Channel 1 and has a fixed range of values 0-127.

1) On a pedalboard I create Slider A...I set it to recognize the footpedal's CC message (CC1 Ch1) so that my hardware now controls this slider. Cool.

2) I make Slider A into a supercontrol for Knob A on one of my pages. This Knob A is set to send out CC #4 on Channel 2, which we'll say conrols the filter cutoff on an external hardware-synth. Now when I move my footpedal from heel to toe, it is changing my filter cutoff smoothly from 0 up to 127. Cool.

3) Let's say, for example, that when I move my footpedal from heel to toe, I only want my filter's range to be scaled to 0 up to 64 (this problem applies to any range of values besides the hardware's original range...in this case 0-127). So I tried the following:

4) I change the min->max midi value of the supercontrol (Slider A) to be 0-64. Here is where I run into the scaling problem:

       - When I manually move Slider A in MIDI Designer, the scaling works perfectly...Knob A responds accordingly, moving from 0 - 64 at the same rate Slider A moves from 0 -127...my synth responds accordingly. Cool.

       - When I move the external footpedal from heel to toe, Knob A moves smoothly from 0 - 64, but the scaling is off and it reaches 64 around 2/3 of the way upto the toe position (Slider A still seems to go smoothly from 0 -127...it is the scaling to Knob A that seems to be the problem). Darn.

I tried playing with a few variables such as altering the display values of Slider A and/or Knob A, as well as altering the number of ticks...but none changed the result for me.

Thoughts?? If I can sort out this simple issue it will be a massive win for my setup (which is not really as simple as the footpedal -> MIDI Designer -> snyth example I gave, but each piece works in this fashion)

Thanks in advance for your help!!

Brian

Comments

**I misspoke when saying the Slider A still moves smoothly from 0-127 after effecting the midi min->max scaling. It in fact reaches 127 at the same 2/3 mark...which strongly implies that this is where the problem lies...when altering the outgoing range of CC values of the supercontrol, it appears to skew the incoming values as well (though not in a directly proportional way). Hope that all makes sense!
Brian

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Hi there, before anything else, let me throw this out there: supercontrols have to travel their FULL midi range (usually 0-127) to get whatever range is specified in the subcontrol. So when you hit 64 in the supercontrol, that's ALWAYS 50% of the MIDI range of the subcontrol.

Ticks are mostly irrelevant, except that they determine exactly which values are being chosen on super and sub.

Now I'll have to study your question more in depth, but this might help you understand what's going on.

Answer 1

Thank you so much for the quick reply! I seem to have found a solution which works quite nicely - I came to this idea after dwelling on the fact that the scaling worked perfectly when moving "Slider A" manually in MIDI Designer, but broke down when I moved slider A using my external MIDI hardware over the same range. So I thought "why not move Slider A using a new Slider/Knob/Crossfader that runs the full range?" This brought me to the solution:

When you want to scale MIDI values coming from a MIDI input outside of MIDI Designer (hardware or virtual midi inputs), you need to make a supercontrol for your supercontrol(s). This also makes for some very nice possibilities of having your external gear split into multiple outgoing signals. The resultant process looks like this - 

1) Create a knob/slider/crossfader we'll call "Ext Input". Use MIDI Learn so this recieves MIDI from your external input (ie footpedal, software synth knob, etc). Keep the MIDI Min->Max range as 0-127 (assuming your gear sends that full range, as mine does). You will probably want this knob placed on a pedalboard. 

2) Create another knob/slider/crossfader which we'll call "Scaling 1". Change the Midi Min->Max to reflect the new range you would like the output scaled to. (ie if you want your original 0-127 range of the external input to become 0-64, choose 0->64 here). You will probably want this knob on a page such that you can switch pages to have your external hardware control different things/ranges with a simple page switch. This knob can be hidden in performance. 

3) Make "Ext Input" a Supercontrol for "Scaling 1". (if you add mutiple scaling knobs, make "Ext Input" a supercontrol for all of these as well...see below)

**You can make as many of these scaling knobs as you like...in effect multiplying your original signal into several CC messages (or other types of messages). These would theoretically be "Scaling 2", "Scaling 3", etc. For instance, you could now set it up so that as you sweep your external footpedal from heel to toe, 2 separate CC messages are output to your hardware synth, each with different ranges. One might be CC12 on channel 4 with heel = 83 -> toe =0, one CC13 on channel 4 with heel = 0 -> toe = 127.

4) Make another knob/slider/crossfader we'll call "Output 1". Leave the MIDI Min->Max at the full range of 0-127. You will probably want this knob placed on the same page with the "Scaling" knob and kept visible. 

5) Make "Scaling 1" a supercontrol of "Output 1". 

**If you made multiple scaling knobs, you will need to make an Output knob for each one of these...so you'd have "Output 2" to match "Scaling 2"...each Scaling knob will be assigned as a Supercontrol for its corresponding Output knob. 

If you followed these steps, you should now be able to sweep your external hardware through its full range and have output(s) that scale to your chosen range (you will see the "Output" knob(s) reflects the range(s)...the "Scaling" knob(s) will simply sweep 0-127). 

It sounds complex, but like many things in this wonderful program, it becomes quite simple once you've done it once or twice. 

Happy tweaking!

Brian

Comments

Thanks Brian, glad you've found what you need and that the pseudo-language of super- and subcontrols is letting you express what you need.

Two things:
1) Not sure if you've checked out "pedalboards" in MIDI Designer, but they might let you reuse your setup on several pages
2) Not sure if you've checked out Channel Changers in MIDI Designer, but... same.

Thanks and enjoy!
Dan

Author & CEO

Answer 2

Thank you so much for the quick reply! I seem to have found a solution which works quite nicely - I came to this idea after dwelling on the fact that the scaling worked perfectly when moving "Slider A" manually in MIDI Designer, but broke down when I moved slider A using my external MIDI hardware over the same range. So I thought "why not move Slider A using a new Slider/Knob/Crossfader that runs the full range?" This brought me to the solution:

When you want to scale MIDI values coming from a MIDI input outside of MIDI Designer (hardware or virtual midi inputs), you need to make a supercontrol for your supercontrol(s). This also makes for some very nice possibilities of having your external gear split into multiple outgoing signals. The resultant process looks like this - 

1) Create a knob/slider/crossfader we'll call "Ext Input". Use MIDI Learn so this recieves MIDI from your external input (ie footpedal, software synth knob, etc). Keep the MIDI Min->Max range as 0-127 (assuming your gear sends that full range, as mine does). You will probably want this knob placed on a pedalboard. 

2) Create another knob/slider/crossfader which we'll call "Scaling 1". Change the Midi Min->Max to reflect the new range you would like the output scaled to. (ie if you want your original 0-127 range of the external input to become 0-64, choose 0->64 here). You will probably want this knob on a page such that you can switch pages to have your external hardware control different things/ranges with a simple page switch. This knob can be hidden in performance. 

3) Make "Ext Input" a Supercontrol for "Scaling 1". (if you add mutiple scaling knobs, make "Ext Input" a supercontrol for all of these as well...see below)

**You can make as many of these scaling knobs as you like...in effect multiplying your original signal into several CC messages (or other types of messages). These would theoretically be "Scaling 2", "Scaling 3", etc. For instance, you could now set it up so that as you sweep your external footpedal from heel to toe, 2 separate CC messages are output to your hardware synth, each with different ranges. One might be CC12 on channel 4 with heel = 83 -> toe =0, one CC13 on channel 4 with heel = 0 -> toe = 127.

4) Make another knob/slider/crossfader we'll call "Output 1". Leave the MIDI Min->Max at the full range of 0-127. You will probably want this knob placed on the same page with the "Scaling" knob and kept visible. 

5) Make "Scaling 1" a supercontrol of "Output 1". 

**If you made multiple scaling knobs, you will need to make an Output knob for each one of these...so you'd have "Output 2" to match "Scaling 2"...each Scaling knob will be assigned as a Supercontrol for its corresponding Output knob. 

If you followed these steps, you should now be able to sweep your external hardware through its full range and have output(s) that scale to your chosen range (you will see the "Output" knob(s) reflects the range(s)...the "Scaling" knob(s) will simply sweep 0-127). 

It sounds complex, but like many things in this wonderful program, it becomes quite simple once you've done it once or twice. 

Happy tweaking!

Brian