Problem iPad softsynths?

Question

Using MIDI Designer  Pro 1.6.2, iPad 4, IOS 7.1, iSem 1.0.2, iMini (latest version)

So I've built a couple of (what I consider killer for my use) layouts for Arturia's iMini and iSem. Well, layout-wise, at least, they're killer for me and the way I intend to use them.

Then comes time to actually assign the MIDI CC info to the layouts, and that's where I'm running into problems. Nothing responds. Check Config and everything is set to either iSem or iMini (per layout and MIDI channel)

I've hooked up a Korg Nano Kontrol to my Mac and assigned the knobs and sliders via the Korg Kontrol Editor for each of the four scenes, reassigning defaults for each of the knobs, sliders, buttons. Good to go.

Then I went into Arturia's iSem and launched MIDI learn based on the Nano Kontrol, which seemed to work. Until I went into MIDI Designer, setup the MIDI CC numbers, and alas, no joy. Then went back to iSem only to find it would delete the CC numbers I assigned it once I assigned them in MIDI Designer, leaving blanks.

As a quick attempt to see if I'm going crazy or not, I tried assigning the CCs manually in Magellan, and all seemed good in a new layout. WTF?

So I guess what I'm asking here is, are there some iPad softsynths that just have software issues like this (Arturia iMini and iSem) and others that don't have the problem? Haven't tried Thor, Sunrizer, Z3TA, Cassini, Mitosynth, Nave, and others yet, but is there a a known issue list somewhere of iPad synths that have issues with this type of thing?

Many thanks for ANY insights here!

Comments

This is sort of a big question. Can we take one example (at least here in the comments) and focus on it, please? For instance, does the iSem continuously work with the NanoKontrol, even after exiting and restarting iSem?

Trying to figure out which part of the issue is with MD, if any. I'm DEFINITELY interested in the issue beyond MD, but our first mission is to figure out if there's something wrong with MD.

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Sure, no problem. Yes, iSem continually responds to the CC messages I've set up, seemingly. But when I go and try to set up a slider in MD, set to the same CC message, nothing happens (even though iSem is setup in the Config). Then, when I go back to iSem to doublecheck the Midi Learn, there's no checkmark by it any more, and I have to re-assign it via MIDI learn in iSem. But then switching back to MD, I still get no response from it. So I switch back to iSem, double check the MIDI, and it's blank again. Have tried rebooting the iPad, also.

Thanks!

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Thanks, testing with iSem, Sunrizer, Animoog and a nanoKontrol right now. Let's see what I discover... there's definitely some weirdness.

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The first thing that I'm seeing, and I'm confirming this now, is that having more than one connection between MIDI Designer and your synth will cause it to be unresponsive. So either shut off the Virtual MIDI Out from MD, or shut off the other connection. And you can shut it off on both sides with both of these two synths (iSem and Sunrizer).

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I had thought that at first, too. Shut off everything but MD and iSem. Then tried the reboot of the iPad. Thought I had read somewhere that the Arturia synths were a bit flaky in the MIDI dept., hence my query.

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Sorry, what I mean is that MIDI Designer has 'MIDI Designer Initiated Virtual MIDI' and the one provided by Sunrizer (or iSem). You should shut off one or the other in MD. Does that make sense? If you don't know exactly what I'm talking about, I can post a screenshot. Basically we're trying to get ONE route from MD to the synth.

This seems to be a persistent finding and I can get the connection to break consistently by using 2 connections instead of 1.

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So in iSem, under MIDI connections, I see "Network Session 1," and two different "MIDI Designer Pro Virtual…" connections

And in MIDI Designer, under Config > Connections, right under "MIDI Designer Initiated Virtual MIDI", there are two lit (blue) buttons, "MIDI In" and "MIDI Out"

Immediately under that is "Hardware and Virtual Sources," with Arturia iSem selected with a checkmark, and below that is "Hardware and Virtual Destinations," with Arturia iSem selected with a checkmark.

Presumable under "MIDI Designer Initiated Virtual MIDI" I should only have "MIDI Out" lit (since MD is sending MIDI data to iSem? Correct?

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Yes, either use the Virtual connections initiated by MD or the iSem initated one (which MD sees)... if you touch the row in MD it will deselect? Does that make sense?

So basically it's one or the other, but not both. It's really enough to untoggle both of the MIDI Designer INitiated Virtual MIDI connections

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OK, so I've got "Midi Designer Initiated Virtual MIDI" turned off on both the MIDI In and MIDI Out. I'm still stuck with that problem of iSem not remembering the MIDI values I've assigned it.

So now I've moved on to Sunrizer to see if I could get it to work properly. I've mapped out a few CCs there under the Effects. So far so good.

Created a new layout in MD, and created knobs and buttons to match those CC values. Some work, some do not. In this test, I've assigned channel 1, CC values ranging from 61-83. I've connected my trusty Korg Nano Kontrol to make sure they work with it and they do. But when I switch over to MD to control them, most seem to take, while others (CC 61, 65, 73, 74, 77 and 83) do nothing.

Strange? By the way, thanks for all your help with this...

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OK, went through and remapped everything again in Sunrizer to different CC numbers, and still the same controllers within Sunrizer are failing. Just as a test, also loaded up TouchOSC (ouch, sorry, know you probably don't want to hear that...) and everything works except for those same controllers in Sunrizer. So I guess maybe there are duplicate CC numbers in there somewhere? Couldn't find them.

Now I'm wondering if I could just use the default CC values within each synth (or do they even trigger MIDI without being assigned? Happen to know?). Do you know of a way I can test moving a few knobs/buttons in an IOS synth and then looking at the results in MacOSX, with something like MIDI Monitor? Or is there an IOS app that will record the MIDI data just so I can see it's values (what channel, CC numbers, etc)? Or am I just chasing my tail here...

Any help appreciated. Many thanks!

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We love hearing about TouchOSC. Formidable app!

Do those particular CC numbers have weird names in MIDI Designer. MIDI Designer lets you use any controllers you want, but some CAN be reserved for some stuff (e.g., premapped or excluded or whatever).

AFAIK Sunrizer doesn't have a default mapping. But anyway, you can just use the MIDI monitor in MIDI Designer. More -> Log ;)

Also there's an app called MIDI Monitor and another called MIDI Wrench. Both are cool, but I haven't tested in a while.

Thanks!

Wait... so you're saying that 61, 65, 73, 74, 77 and 83 don't work from MD but *do* work from the nanoKontrol?

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Actually, no, not anymore. It was fine, but again, those CC values I entered keep disappearing. Guess that was what was happening all along, same with iSem. Put them in, switch to MD, switch back to Sunrizer, and they're gone, replaced with "--" But if I program them fresh with the Korg, then play it straight with the Korg, it'll stay. Looks like it's only when I switch to MD. Going to have to see if TouchOSC exhibits the same behaviour later. And it's not just those CCs, it's the synth itself, no matter what CC numbers I put in those spots (was assigning them to Send, Morph, EQ High, EQ Low, and Filter Stereo Spread. Strange, huh?

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The real question for me is, does the same thing happen with the Korg if you just switch to the home screen or another app that's NOT MD? The reason this is so important is that we're still trying to figure out if it's an MD problem or just a problem. Glad to help in either case, but in one case we won't sleep and in another we'll sleep pretty well ;)

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OK, just got home and tested it with an Arturia MiniLab. Went to Midi Learn in Sunrizer, set Effects Send to CC 72, then got out of Midi Learn. Next turned the physical knob at CC 72 (which should have turned Effects Send, right?). Alas, it moves the OSC 1 Width (which is set to CC 75 in Sunrizer). Switch back into Midi Learn in Sunrizer, and it still shows Effects Send at 72. So then I exit Sunrizer by Quitting it (swipping up) and relaunching it. Now the Effects Send is blanked out again.

Weird. This is also the problem I was having with iSem, where it just keeps loosing all my Midi Learn settings. So it looks like it wasn't MD after all, just need to look for another way around all this.

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The coincidence between Sunrizer and other apps is too weird and very suspect.

Try weird stuff like entering settings, saving settings (if there is such a thing), etc. Many of those things might trigger a save... Also make sure to exit to the home screen first before killing the App, as it might cause a  save whereas just killing the App might not. Etc. etc. Hand your iPad to a 3-year-old and see if they can get it to work. When all is said and done, we'll figure it out and then they'll be able to fix it from our awesome bug report ;)

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I tried everything last night, and still the problems persist, both with Sunrizer and with iSem. Pulling my hair out, leading to heavilly drinking in frustration... It's not MD's fault, Dan, and I realize that, it's these soft synths that don't seem to be holding the Midi Learn, which is a complete drag. Just thought this morning about deleting each synth and re-installing it to see if that cures it. Went to both Sunrizer's and Arturia's forums and noticed that neither actually answered anyone's questions (which is certainly a testament to you and your commitment to MD). I'll let you know what I discover soon.

Thanks again for all your help in this mess, Dan!

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Sorry to hear that their forums aren't really doing much. Tech support becomes a box people check off, without actually reading anything. We've noticed that the default in 2014 is to have awesome questions, no answers and little discussion. But there are exceptions!

Anyway, yeah, whatever you do, diagnosing problems should be a slow and methodical process. Drinking cannot help you diagnose better, but some other things might help you think outside of the box, especially if you're in CA or CO or WA... HOWEVER, I don't have any brilliant suggestions about getting them to save MIDI learn.

On the support front, though, I'd suggest emailing the devs, calling them out (respectfully) on Twitter, etc. They might answer some channels way better than others. Oftentimes it's just a failure to have a good alert system.

Thank you for your interest and passion. Oftentimes, though, we are diagnosing a situation that we could sidestep, use something else, etc. And those solutions only come when we walk away from the problem.

Good luck!