How to control Korg MS-1

MIDI Designer cannot filter unless you're willing to create buttons for every note that you want to rip the note off from, and then subcontrols for each one... pretty hellish but possible. However: what's the Korg hooked up to, or is it an iPad app, or...?

There's a panic button in MD which will handle your note offs...

commented Mar 2, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Thanks for your reply.
I have put together something that should work for what I'm trying to do, which is basically set up Mute Groups of sorts, MPC style. Here's the layout file:
{{ http://www.mediafire.com/download/di9ehv1e5yk8yb7/011_all_still_phucky.mididesigner }}

Here is a video on the only issue I'm having, not sure why it happens. I have tested it with different MIDI keyboards, MIDI interfaces (Mobilizer II, iRig, Alesis IO dock), & devices(iPad 2&4).
{{ }}

Any ideas? :) Thanks

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Great, coincidentally Tim Webb at www.discchord.com just found this today. I'm reading this over right now.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Thank you, I look forward to your response! :)

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Can you explain "random notes will not retrigger?" I know it's in the video, but it's easier to know what I'm looking for.

Also, does the problem manifest if you don't use an external keyboard?

Thanks, looking forward to getting this sorted, and if possible before 1.6.1 pops.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Every note will trigger the first time it is played.
When I go to re-trigger the notes, some will not re-trigger.
The same few notes will cease to re-trigger.
Once I close & reopen MIDI Designer, the same thing happens, but with different notes. There is no pattern that I can tell, just random notes become stuck and will not re-trigger.
I have tried this with my MicroKorgXL on an organ patch with local MIDI turned OFF. The results are the same as above.
Pressing the buttons on screen works fine, but will not work for what im trying to do.
Let me know if you would like more details, thanks!

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Yeah, no worries, I'm not suggesting that you use MD as a touch surface... just trying to bracket the problem.

Alright, I've got to get into this layout, apparently. I'll be back, but this weekend will be in fits and starts. Thanks for your patience as I understand the problem.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Great, I appreciate you looking into this.
If we can get MIDI Designer to accomplish this task, it will bring a whole new life to this MicroSampler... I am very excited!
Will look forward to your response, thank you.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

So on the really simple side: if you disconnect the MIDI route to the MicroSampler, does the problem still manifest? I'm guessing "definitely"...

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

When you say, "when I go to retrigger the notes, some will not retrigger" do you know which if any part of the chain is failing? Sorry if that question doesn't make sense, and just seeing what we can bracket until I can get back to the studio to test with an external keyboard.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

I currently have MicroSampler (ms1) connected like this:
Ms1 midi out -> dock midi in
Dock midi out -> ms1 midi in
Local midi is turned off on the Ms1.

Which connection should I disconnect? What setup would you like me to try?

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

The Dock midi out

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Would you like me to link this to an app for testing? Otherwise everything seems fine, everything lights up normally. Watching the live log, nothing seems out of place, its all it order.
I have midi out from dock now going to my microKorgXL. Playing the notes with midi out coming from the MS1. Same problem exists.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

My description of the layout. It's actually pretty simple:

1) Supers1: a bunch of Note/On-> Note/Off buttons that receive from the keyboard
2) Supers1 has a sub which is a all-notes-off button
3) All-Notes-Off button is basically a panic button, done manually with a bunch of subcontrol buttons that send off only
4) Subs-Sustains: a bunch of Note-On-Only buttons that send to the MIDI target...

So on each external keypress, the corresponding supercontrol from #1 is triggered, which then triggers:

1) a panic send and THEN
2) the "sustained" (no note off) version of the note

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Okay, I get it... I'll need some time to test and it might not be until Monday that I get to confirm this bug. My goal is to confirm it so I can fix it, of course. For now, great find, thank you!

commented Mar 8, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Yes, a simple setup, thats all I want. :)
Would make it simpler by using an All-Notes-Off or All-Sounds-Off CC , but the MS1 doesnt play nice with those.
Thanks for your help, let me know if you find time to look at it.
Have a great weekend.

commented Mar 8, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

A quick question related to the topic;
Can I set up a button that will enable / disable other buttons?
Example: Id like to have toggle buttons that would disable or enable a different button, not toggle them on or off, but to exclude them from activating. ( to select whether a key is part of the 'mute group' or not )

commented Mar 9, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Have you had a chance to verify this as a bug? Thanks.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Sorry about not answering here. I've looked at the layout and loaded it on an iPad. I've plugged in an external keyboard and tried to get one of the notes not to retrigger. I don't see anything like that happening and I'm trying to imagine what other variables might be involved. Is it hard to get this bug to happen?

MIDI Designer Panic button does panic the old-fashioned way: by sending all notes/all channels off.

A button to enable or disable other buttons isn't possible yet with MD.

Any further instructions on getting the bug to happen (or further findings) would help.

Thanks!

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Thanks for your reply, and the info.
It is very easy to make this bug happen.
I have been unable to avoid this bug, it happens every time.
Not once have I had this layout work the way it should. :)
I have tried my Alesis MIDI dock, IK's iRig MIDI & a Line6 MIDI Mobilizer II.
Tried this on a MicroKorg XL, XL+ & MicroSampler. (Local MIDI is Off to avoid confusions)
Used an iPad2, iPad4 & iPod Touch 4g.
I can provide more video, let me know how I can explain or demonstrate better. Frustrated that its so simple & cant get it to work.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Just tried my iPad2 + iRig MIDI with the MicroSampler & this layout..
It worked, for the first time!
Then I tried it with my iPod. Same bug happened.
Going back to the iPad2, the bug was back.
Reset the springboard each time, connecting the iRig, then fresh load of MD.
No idea why it wont work right.
Thank you for your help,

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)
edited Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas

Sorry, to clarify: what are you using as your keyboard for input here? Can you try something simple like a Korg NanoKey or any basic MIDI keyboard?

We are unable to replicate the bug at all, so far, but we'd sure like to.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Additionally, the MIDI log might show what's up. More -> Log

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Just tried MIDI IN from MicroKorg XL+, MAudio 49e, Casio MT-540, Roland FP2, Maudio 88 pro. Same results: each time the MD is restarted or MIDI reset, each key will play/trigger once. After the innitial triggering, some will not re-trigger (random selection but stays with those same keys until restart)
Same happens when I run any other keyboard in/out.
Tried changing all switches from Toggle to Momentary to Drumpad with no sucess. Im sitting here with all my gear for most of the day, if you have time, i am here to troubleshoot. Thanks

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

MIDI log of key that retriggers vs key that doesnt retrigger is identical, with exception of the current note number.
The log shows everything as Id expect it to be, sending the commands Im trying to send, and nothing extra or out of the ordinary.
I am using the Casio MT-540 as the input for MD for this example , as it doesnt send any strange or continuous MIDI data. Output tried on Microsampler, MicroKorg & Roland FP2

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Right, but first let's attempt this without ANY midi output to anywhere. Do you still see the problem?

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Here is the log of two keys, one retriggers, one does not. Sorry for filling this forum page up, just trying to include as many details as i can.

Connection via iRig MIDI with iPad 2 & latest MIDI Designer.
Input to MD: Casio MT-540 (basic MIDI)
Output from MD: MicroSampler
Note: the final MIDI IN value of Data2 does not affect. I can press a key and sustain the note (holding the key down) as to not get the Data2=0, but it makes no difference; the note still fails to retrigger.

Does not retrigger:

Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=60, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=61, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=62, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=63, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=64, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=65, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=66, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=67, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=68, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=69, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=70, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=71, Data2=0
Message In: Command=144, Channel=1, Data1=61, Data2=64
Message In: Command=144, Channel=1, Data1=61, Data2=0

Does retrigger:

Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=60, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=61, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=62, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=63, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=64, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=65, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=66, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=67, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=68, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=69, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=70, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=128, Channel=1, Data1=71, Data2=0
Message Out: Command=144, Channel=1, Data1=60, Data2=64
Message In: Command=144, Channel=1, Data1=60, Data2=64
Message In: Command=144, Channel=1, Data1=60, Data2=0

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

I have all connections turned off. The log is sharing the same information.
Also note: the on screen buttons themselves function properly. Just not the MIdI IN.
There is nothing i can 'see' , its only what i hear, which frustrates me :)
Visually in the log everything seems a-ok

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Okay, I didn't realize that the on-screen behavior was fine. Now we're getting somewhere.

So the output to the Microsampler might actually be the problem, right? Can you use ANY other MIDI target, like another keyboard? Just trying to bracket the problem, and I don't see any difference in the output of the MIDI logs.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Sorry I thought I had brought that up before, my bad.
I have tried almost every possible connection at my disposal.
The results are the same with every keyboard.
Right now i have the MKXL in to MD, MD out to Casio MT-540, with a sustainable organ patch loaded.
The results are the same. Every key triggers once, then a few keys wont retrigger. If i can put together a better video, would that help?

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Also note: when using a midi keyboard in to control a software synth (sampletank) as midi out in MD, the bug exists as well. So it does seem to be the midi out from MD, even though the on screen buttons send Midi out data just fine. Test: midi IN to iRig from any midi keyboard. Midi out in MD selected to a software synth. MD config has irig as IN only, sampletank as OUT only, no other connections.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Okay, no worries, let me give this another go with MD + NanoKey + Sunrizer. I hope to see your bug manifest!

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Okay, I got the problem to manifest. Thanks, we'll take it from here!

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

So what's happening is that your subcontrols are getting triggered prior to your supercontrols in some cases, and (for now) there's no way to fix the ordering of the controls in terms of external MIDI. Another solution, disallowing external MIDI for the control, is also not available. Another solution, that you might be able to use, is to send using a different channel to your MIDI target. If I set all the subs to, say, channel six, then the whole scheme works, assuming Sunrizer (or your MIDI target) will listen on that channel.

I'm looking at possibilities for issuing a patch now, too.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Thank you for looking into this. These other solutions have opened up new ideas on my end. I will try rechanneling the subs right now. Do you suggest change the channel for just the sustain? Or just the note off? This is all still new to me.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

The note offs could be done like this:

http://mididesigner.com/qa/1252/how-do-i-make-a-panic-button

But otherwise you need to change the channel on both. Thanks!

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

I was using my method of note offs so I can do this:
Have drums / a loop playing in the pattern sequencer, while using MD to filter events to certain keys. The panic method will stop all audio, not what Im trying to do. Also, the microsampler 'burps' & does not recover instantly from a Panic message.
I am changing midi channels and trying it that way right now. Thank you

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Changing MIDI channel will work. Sorry I didn't spot this earlier. I was kind of assuming it was a bug somewhere, but in fact it's an "uncontemplated use" ;)

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Okay thanks a lot,
I tried to switch the channel, the MicroSampler will accpet on only 2 selectable channels (one for sample mode, one for keyboard mode = no go.
I tried changing each Note On button to Super all of the key off buttons except for itself (rather than using the All Toggle Off button) = no go.

If theres possibility of a patch, I will wait it out. Otherwise It looks like I'm stuck for now. Really appreciate the support & communication. (!)

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

We're patching right now. Patch will be a VERY late arrival in 1.6.1. Submitted by tomorrow, and released to the world next week. Button will say, "MIDI Receive" and be on by default.

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

Thats excellent, thanks for implementing this....!
Really looking forward to this new feature.
A+ service

commented Mar 12, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Glad to help. When you're happy and sorted, if you feel like leaving a 5-star extensive review in the App Store ***for version 1.6.1***, please do!

commented Mar 12, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

I was alerted by the App Store that version 1.6.1 was available to upgrade...

Thank You for implementing the Receive MIDI option!!
This is the only software that allows me to do what I really want to do.
With this update you have turned the MicroSampler into something the developers at Korg never thought about.
Once I get to a computer, I will provide a very positive review.
There are many MS-1 owners that have been looking for this function, you have made us very happy.
Exceptional communication, implementation & follow-up. My words barely do your work justice.
Thank you and thank you.

commented Mar 21, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)
edited Mar 27, 2014 by cubilas

Another question related to this topic:

Can I use MIDI Designer as a MIDI Thru for certain keys?

I have set up the top two octaves as the mute groups. The lowest octave I would like to play as normal. In order for the mute groups to work correctly, I have to disable Local MIDI on my keyboard.

To get the lowest octave to perform as the keyboard regularly would, I have to create two buttons for each key. One that accepts the MIDI In for that key, and another that sends the MIDI data back to the keyboard (subcontrolled from the first button).

Is there a way to create a button and enable it as a MIDI Thru? Thus, avoiding the need for extra buttons and controls (which slow everything down & also creates a doubling effect)

Thank you for your hard work, I hope my long review for Version 1.6.1 made it to the App Store (haven't seen it on there yet).

commented Apr 5, 2014 by cubilas (170 points)

Hi and thanks for these comments! Looking forward to seeing the review. What store are you in? We see all of them, but we tend to look more at the US (that's the store we buy through ;))

There is no way to enable MIDI thru for keys except the way that you've done it. We will consider it soon, but please feel free to break it into a separate question as a suggestion. That way we can also try to nail down what you want to do.

Thanks!!!

commented Apr 5, 2014 by MIDI Designer Team (Dan)

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