values of supercontrols interfering

Question

i made a matrix of momentary buttons. so when i swipe over it i go from one to the other without any pause in between.

now i made a second page with the same buttons but here the values are 76 and a third one with the values at 38. in my lighting software these 3 pages correspond to fader values of 100%, 60% and 30%.

if push one button on the first page, the 4 buttons around it ( + pattern) on the second page and the 4 others ( x pattern) on the third page follow as subcontrols. this means in my lighting software one will be 100%, 4 others will be 60% and another 4 will be 30%. exactly what i wanted.

but when i move to the next button this pattern has to follow my touch. so again i make it a supercontrol on the first page with subcontrols on the second and third. and here it goes wrong. the first one i created should go to 60% when i move to the second one, but this also acts as a supercontrol to the second, meaning they prevent each other from going to 100%.

so altough the subcontrols are only on the second and third page, they interfere on the first page too. is this because they use the same midi channel/number but only with a different value? is there a way around this?

Comments

Hi and thanks for your question. If you don't mind, please make a new layout (save the one you have or mail it, of course) and try to get down to a ***simplest-possible*** example of the problem. If you can manage to abstract the problem from your specific domain (lighting), it would help me to both contemplate problems from a user's perspective or, if need be, contemplate this as a suggestion for MIDI Designer.

Then upload the layout or make it available on the Web. You can upload the simple layout as part of the question.

With a simple example, we can also use it for testing going forward.

Thanks!
Dan

P.S. If this is too hard to think about, I'll get into the description as is, but a simplified example usually helps.

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ok i have done that. but i can't seem to find where to upload it or what adress to mail it to.

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Okay, sorry for the delay. You can just use support [at] mididesigner.com

Thanks!

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so when you see the layout you will see 3 pages.
on the first page are the supercontrols (S). when touched they will also put out a value of 127.
the second page (H) has all the same controls but they have a value of 76.
on the third page (Q) again the same controls, but a value of 38.

i have created 2 supercontrols; S11 and S12.
let's start by turning off S12 as a supercontrol.
if i know touch S11 on the first page, it will also engage controls H4, H10, H12 and H18 on the second page and Q3, Q5, Q17 and Q19 on the third page. so these will put out values of 76 and 38.
i guess this is clear and this works as i want it to.

i set up S12 in the same way. now they are both selected as supercontrols.
if i now touch S11 the output values are messed up. this is because S12 is a subcontrol of S11 and the other way around. strangely enough it is only the controls on the second and third page that are the subcontrols, yet they act as supercontrols and they make a loop.
the values on the output are no longer 127, 76 and 38 but 76, 45, 38 and 23.
if i touch them only for a very short time this continuous loop becomes visible; the controls start flashing. on my midi monitor i see them going crazy and and just flash between the values 1 and 0 very fast.

so there are 2 problems and one extra question.

-the controls on the second (H) and third page (Q) are not only influenced by their supercontrols on the first page (S) but they also influence their supercontrols.

-supercontrols have equal importance. they lack an HTP or LTP system.
in HTP (Highest Takes Precedent) a control will only put out it's value when this value is higher than value put out by the currently active control.
in LTP (Latest Takes Precedent) the output value will be the one of the control that is last in use.
this means that if an active control has a continous output of 80 and i move a fader controlling the same channel up to 60, in HTP the output will still be 80. in LTP it will be 60.
if supercontrols would have one of these systems (in my case LTP is preferable) there would be no loops possible.

Q -> would it be possible to control the maximum output value of several buttons with one fader? so the button will switch between 0 and the value set by this 'master' fader?

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That's not a loop, I think. That's two supercontrols fighting to control the same subcontrols. If it were a loop, MD would crash very quickly.

To get controls to stop influencing their supercontrols, just add another control as a sub to the supercontrols. Supercontrols that have more than one sub are NOT affected by their subcontrols.

At the present time, you cannot set the max value of a fader from a supercontrol. You can only change its value (or channel, with channel changers).

Does that help?

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well they both have multiple subs...
and i don't want to set the max value of a fader from a super control. i want the fader to be the super control that sets the max value of some buttons.

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Okay, looking at the layout now.

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Okay, you're reusing names, so it's quite confusing. If you change the supers on the "Super" page to be called S11 and S12, it will be easier to explain and understand what is happening.

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In theory, there is NO way in MIDI Designer to have a subcontrol control its super. If you've found an exception to this, we'd REALLY like to investigate it.

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well that's what i don't understand. but you have the layout so you can see it happening.